Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:04 Make it right. The manufacturing podcast, welcome to
Speaker 1 00:00:10 The, make it right podcast. I'm Janet Eastman. And this week on the show, Kevin snuck and I are talking about walking the factory floor in 2021. Hi, Kevin. Good to talk to you again. So you know what? We talked about this back in September, 2018, and we had two episodes, number 17, and number 18, those two podcasts have been two of the most popular we have ever done. So people are really curious about how to do this factory floor thing, right? So you've been part of thousands of factory tours. You've seen it done well, you've seen it done very badly. And if people go back and listen to those shows, they'll, they'll hear the stories there, but I wanted to relook at this topic because I think the factory tour probably has changed a bit. It's pretty hard to do right now in 2021. And I'm hoping that you can probably share some ideas on how to do this in a time of restricted travel and restricted contact, et cetera. So you normally have been part of factory tours. What are you been doing for the last year and a half when you're not doing the factory tour?
Speaker 2 00:01:19 Yeah, well, there was a paradigm, um, that, you know, in order to be able to help a factory, you had to be there. And, uh, that's been part of my paradigm for a long time as well. I've, uh, I right up until COVID here, I was still traveling around a lot. And I think when COVID hit, I was in, uh, classes, South Korea and China, Malaysia, Indonesia, London, UK. Um, and so there was a lot of traveling going on and, and it really was that feeling that, you know, how are you going to help us with Yukon actually be here? Uh, but what we've found over the last year is that that isn't the case that you still can really help people transform their business whilst, you know, working virtually like this technology is just become so good. And, uh, what we need to be able to do is how you still need to have the impact that you want to have with the factory tool, but do it in a new way and then put a new spin on it if you like. And so that's been, that's been what I've been focusing on over the last probably 14 months. Um, how do you continue to transform results without actually being there in person? And has that changed the factory tour or are all the fundamentals of it still the same? So, yeah, I'm looking forward to this.
Speaker 1 00:02:35 Okay. So I want to start off right from the word go above the goal of the factory tour, because I think that the goal of the factory tour in the leader's head can be as individual as the leader themselves. But what do you see is the real goal, this whole point of doing that factory tour? It's not to go out and glad hand isn't. It's like the leaders for a really good reason. What's the reason.
Speaker 2 00:03:03 Well, it, it goes back to the very basics, which he is, the leader is there to help set a very clear direction. So make sure that everybody knows where we're going together and we're all in this together. And then to look at areas where we can help and support the frontline employees as much as possible. And so that's always what's in my mind whenever I'm at, and this is the same actually on a factory tour, as it is in a meeting where you're looking to make decisions or, uh, in, in an email where you're writing an email, it's there, there's, there's two fundamentals to the leader. One is having a very clear direction. We're going this way. And, and this is why, and, and helping everybody understand that and be aligned with that. And the other part is now as a leader, my job is to help you break the barriers that you can't break yourself, where is it? Where are you struggling? Where, where are we seeing signs of struggle? And, and then how can we intervene in a meaningful way on the right priorities? Okay.
Speaker 1 00:04:07 Okay. So you believe that the role of the leader when they're on that tour is to go there and to listen, to understand those those workers needs, and then to walk away with ideas on how to get them the help and support that they need. So in this current situation where you can't walk the factory floor, you can't, um, actually stand there beside a frontline worker beside the machine that they work on or whatever, and say, what's going on here, tell me what's happening here. What do you do? How do you make that connection with that frontline worker?
Speaker 2 00:04:43 Yeah. So if you're in a regional leadership role and you need to travel to different, um, facilities in different countries, that's been really difficult over the last 14 months. Um, and so, uh, it's a matter of training other people to be able to do the things that you were doing before. And so I do, I do still think there's a need for some physical presence on the factory floor, people that are looking for the right things and doing the right things. And even though it might not be you, um, there there's somebody else that needs to be doing that. The fact is the frontline employees need to see leadership. They need to have that engagement. And, uh, even though factories have become more restricted around, uh, who's allowed in the facility at a certain time. Um, most of the factories that I know are still allowing leadership at the right time.
Speaker 2 00:05:40 So with the right precautions to do a visit to the factory, uh, to me, it's absolutely critical that everybody gets a chance to see each other and see what really goes on. There's a, there's a big philosophy of mine, which is trust, but verify. And that means that you want to be trusting people. You want to be listening to what they say and believing what they say, but in any, in any situation, there are times when you need to verify or validate the information that you're hearing and see it for yourself. And, uh, and so there's a need for leaders to be out on the factory floor, within a single country. Those, um, I know there are some restrictions, status States, et cetera, but generally people are allowed to travel, allow to get into the facilities. Um, we want to make the use of that. So I would say that as a regional leader, you need to find a proxy, someone who's going to be able to go in there and do some of that with you and for you, because you can still be there in video format. We will talk a little bit more about that. Um, but, uh, but if you're in the country, then you actually want to continue to do that. Even if it might be less frequent,
Speaker 1 00:06:51 Is there a way to open up lines of communication with that frontline worker? Um, you know, that, that allows them to kind of get to that leader without that physical contact, you know, like we have all these, these tools now there's like loom and whatever, where you can actually, you know, send a little video and say, listen, like, this is what I'm dealing with every day. Is there any way we can fix this? Right? Like, are technologies like that being used by a frontline worker?
Speaker 2 00:07:21 Yes. And, and, uh, it's, it's played a huge role in my business over the last 14 months. So, so as I said, the, the, the paradigm that I had was I needed to be there. And so that meant that I had to get on a plane, had to go stay in a hotel. I had to spend time in the facility, you know, sort of normally eight or nine hours a day. And so frankly in that time as well, there's a lot of dead time, right? There's a certain amount of people can be fully engaged, but, uh, also it's very difficult to keep a consultant or a leader of a company or whatever involved for eight hours a day. And so what, what we've found is with the new ways of working, you're actually saving a lot of travel time. You're saving a lot of money on hotels and planes and things like that, but you're also making more focused use of the time.
Speaker 2 00:08:10 So with a video, you can be there for the hour that you need to be there, and then you cut off and you're not there anymore. Right. You can be called back at any time that you need to be back there. And so there's some real paradigm shifts that have been made. And my concern was that, what if you're not there? Can you really transform the results? So we proved that we have, but let me use an example, a specific example in the U S so I'm based in Bangkok, Thailand, right. Which is a very, a 16 hour flight from most of the places in the U S. And, um, and so it wouldn't be possible for me to do that on a regular basis, but, uh, now I have a couple of clients in the us and we're, we're changing their results, but they have to act in different way as well.
Speaker 2 00:08:56 So they are bringing the frontline employees to this bolt, right. And we're having an interaction here. And when the, when the employees come, we've either seen video in advance for using things like Dropbox, like you said, loom, we're using, um, different remote techniques to be able to get a view of what's going on so that you can have that meaningful conversation and still trust what people are saying and verify what they're saying as well. Now it takes a, a level of professionalism, a level of maturity on the, uh, on, on each of the individuals that gets involved in that, because you've got to be able to have a really open conversation when you're on a production line. One of the things that we've said is it's really important to listen. And, and when you are there and you're doing it, you can kind of see what's going on as well.
Speaker 2 00:09:54 And you can point things out when you're seeing that on a video, and then you're having a conversation. You have to be very careful that you're not blaming people for things that you're not, you're not just seeing the things that are going wrong. Uh, one of the key things for me has always been catching people, doing things, right. And I think that's incredibly important on a factory tour. It is easy to see behaviors where people are doing something that you don't particularly agree with, and you do need to approach them. You do need to address them, but especially now we need to be catching people, doing things right. And approaching them and looking for more ways to be able to increase the number of things that we're doing. Right.
Speaker 1 00:10:41 I like that. When you say you gotta, you have to recognize and, and indicate that you see the things that are going right. Because, you know, back in those earlier podcasts that we did about walking the factory floor, you had this great line and I'm trying to find it here. Oh, blame is not a good motivator. Well, no kidding. Right. But until somebody says it to you, you go, yeah. Why do people come and always pick at the things that are going wrong? And they don't go look at that. Like, that's amazing. Right? So that little bit of motivation really can turn the crank in the right direction for somebody's attitude and send them off to really being on side. Right.
Speaker 2 00:11:22 Well, actually this was a study on this the other day. And it, because it came up in a, in a personal situation, I was, I was out in the, in the kitchen and, uh, I wish it was, it was later at night and we were just about to go to bed. And then I saw that the dishwasher needed to be empty before I went to bed. Right. So I'm like, okay, I'm good. I went to the dishwasher and then I'm going to go to bed. And then I decided that actually I was going to have a cup of tea before I, before I emptied the dishwasher. So I started making a cup of tea, and then my wife came out. My is my real boss. You know, she, she came out and she saw the dishwasher wasn't emptied. And she said, uh, when you enter the dishwasher and I read, yes.
Speaker 2 00:12:06 And she said, well, can you make sure you get it done before you go to bed? I'm like, I was going to do it anyway. Right. I was like, now I don't want to do it. I was like, what, what is going on with me? I said, I didn't say that obviously, cause I'm a little bit more tactful, but that was what I felt. Right. I had this, this reacting to, to that situation. And it was trying to figure out what is it? And it's actually a psychological term called psychological reactance. And what it means is that as an individual, when we have one of our degrees of freedom taken away, we feel like we're in a fight or flight mode. We feel like somebody is trying to control us. And we don't like that. And what happens is that we, we go back, we actually lose all of our reasoning, part of the brain.
Speaker 2 00:12:55 We go back into that very sort of, uh, old part of the brain, which is fight or flight. And it means at that point that you lose the ability to have logic and reason. And all of a sudden we're in an emotional state. And so that explained why was we such an innocent thing? Cause I was going to buy into the dishwasher anyway. Right? I wanted to be able to do it myself without being told what to do. I didn't want to, I didn't want to be controlled. Now when we're out with people on the factory floor and we're pointing out things and where we're looking at everything, they're doing wrong with telling them what to do, we're creating that psychological reactance where people say I was going to do it anyway. I know what to do out here. I'm out here every minute of the day.
Speaker 2 00:13:47 I know my job better than you do. And now you fly in here and you know, they call it the C goal, uh, approach, right? That the seagull flies in shits all over everybody and then flies away again. Right. And that's typical of what happens when a manager comes into the factory floor, they'd come in, they see everything that's wrong. We pointed all out, tell them what to do. Right. And then they go again. And this is the worst possible way to insert you to, to have a relationship with your frontline employees. So that psychological reactance, if we were aware of that, then we can go in with a completely different approach, which is, yes, you do know this area better than I do. What are you struggling with? What is there? That's not working the way you would want it to, Oh, I see that.
Speaker 2 00:14:37 There's some spare parts put in the corner over there. And I know that they've been there for a while. What is it? What's the challenge with getting them out of here? Cause I know you don't want them here right there. Right? It's it's I could see that piece of equipment is dirty. Um, did you need better tools to clean that? Do you need more time? Is the schedule too tight? What is it that is preventing you from making that piece of equipment the way you would want it to look and run? That's the kind of conversation we want to have. And that's why I'm saying it's not about compromising standards. In fact, we need to be absolutely clear on what our standards are, but it is about having the conversation in a way that helps people elevate the standards rather than puts them under pressure to feel like they're resisting it.
Speaker 1 00:15:27 So there's a couple of things I want to pick up on there first, um, the blame game, when somebody blames, as you said, with the dishwasher, you were going to do it anyway. And somebody comes in and says, how come this isn't done? Well, there's a, there's this moment where you go, you don't trust me that I know my job. Like I was going to do that. You never even asked if this is what I was going to do. You just assumed that I wasn't going to do it. Right. So there's that total lack of trust. No offense to your wife. Right. But you know what I mean? So that gets you up and then you'd hit that psychological point. So that was my first thing I wanted to ask you about was the trust factor. But then you talk about behaviors that you're looking for on the factory floor. Because when you go as a leader into a situation and you look around, if you do see the spare parts in the corner and you know, they were there the last time, so there's a behavior that's happening there. That isn't what you want to be seeing on the factory tour, nor likely what they want in their, in their areas. So you're saying go in there and ask the questions and find out why this is still happening and how that's bothering them. Right?
Speaker 2 00:16:47 Yeah. Find out how it's happening in a way that you are that to help the conditions on a factory floor are a reflection of the leadership, not of the people on the factory floor. I know that people on the factory floor want to work in a nice environment. They want to work in a safe environment. They want to work in an environment that is attractive to them to come to work every day. Now, if, if the leaders are going in and finding that that is not the situation then in, in my experience, it's the leaders that are responsible for that situation. And that means it's the leaders who can fix that situation. Now we have to have a conversation to find out specifically, what do I need to do to help you to get this situation fixed? Right? But if we're not having that conversation, then that's our responsibility as leaders.
Speaker 2 00:17:43 And so, um, yeah, I think the, the, the, it's all about the intention behind the words, it's the intention behind the action. If you're intending to help and support people so that they can do their job better so that they can make better decisions. So they have the autonomy to become the owner of their equipment or the owner of that area. Then you, you, you, you can't really go wrong if you're going in, just in order to achieve a result, then that's when you like these to make a mistake. And, and that's where trust breaks down, right? Because the big part, um, you know, you could look at the situation with my wife and I, there must have been some situations in the past where she had expected something from me and it hadn't been done or she'd asked something from me and it hadn't been done.
Speaker 2 00:18:33 And then that record is still playing. And the whole thing is, okay, it might not get done. I better make sure that he knows it needs to get up. Right. So that's a communication barrier. That's just, that's just simply old records that are playing through. We've got to be able to say, okay, in communication, I always think that everybody is a hundred percent responsible. So if you think that in the communication to people are 50 50 in the responsibility, if there's a slight gap on one of those, you know, one person is 49 and the other one's 50. Then you've got a gap in the communication, right? And things break down. You've automatically got that gap. If you're a hundred hundred and somebody is a 99, or even 50% that day, then you've still got a 50% overlap. So we, we all need to be responsible for our own communication.
Speaker 2 00:19:29 But as leaders, you know, we're the ones who need to lean forward in that quite often, people on the factory floor have elevated things to leadership a number of times, and they haven't got a response to it, or they haven't got the responsive really helps. And so they're gonna go a little bit more quiet, and they're probably going to sit back from that conversation a bit. That means that the leader who wants things to change, wants to transform things, um, needs to be leaning in a little bit more, really listening carefully to, to see where they can help and support.
Speaker 1 00:20:05 So you said, and I love this. The record is playing over and over again. So to me, that means the leader, whenever he's going in to have one of these conversations, and even maybe the person who they're engaging with both people need to clear the cache. Right? You got to clear the cache and go, let's start from zero. Again, none of the past, let's start a new way of communication.
Speaker 2 00:20:34 Right. Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't it be nice if in every relationship we did that, we didn't take all the old stories and with us, but I know that that's kind of like utopia it's, um, and it's, it's not possible as humans to have that. And you know, we talked this before, but every, every individual wakes up with a different head on their shoulders every day. Right? So even if you think, you know, somebody, you don't know what through what they went through that morning, you don't know whether they had some struggle at home before they came into work. You don't know whether there was an issue with a car or they couldn't find parking or, you know, whatever it was. They just, they came in and in their mind was just a little bit screwed up at morning. And so it, as a leader, I feel like if we're going to take a hundred percent of responsibility for the communication, for our side of the communication, then you want to be able to drop as much of that old baggage as possible. I can go into each conversation with presence, right? And that's around really focusing, listening, listening with generous ears. I think that's a, that's, that's a good way to think about it. Listening to hear the things that the person is trying to say, rather than just, you know, dumping back onto that old record.
Speaker 1 00:21:49 That's manufacturing, leadership advisor, Kevin Snoke, and he's also the author of make it right. Five steps to align your manufacturing business from the front line to the bottom line, Kevin has spent thousands of hours on the factory tour and we continue our conversation next week. When he talks about the power of really listening with generous ears, I hope you'll join us. Then I'm Janet Eastman. You can find make it right on Twitter and LinkedIn. And also we're on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, and YouTube until next week. Thanks for listening to make it right.
